WAVERLEY 2013

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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:19 pm

Departing Helensburgh-sur-Mer this morning. :wave:
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:18 pm

Weather looking fantastic for tomorrow so planning to do the round trip Glasgow-Rossy.

Incidentaly, who's the relief skipper? Face looks familiar but no name coming to mind.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:15 pm

Capt. Andy O'Brien on today.
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:15 pm

Thanks Paul, recognise him there OK - it was actually your photo of last Friday I was referring to but when I look at it again,,,,,,,,,I think that's probably himself too.

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Gerry Ward
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Gerry Ward » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:26 pm

Waverley arriving Glasgow last Friday always looks a bit close.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:21 am

I was aboard yesterday and rumour has it that the Waverley hierarchy has been "warned" about the Waverley's timekeeping. If the ship arrives late at Largs they might not be able to tie up because the rope handlers have retired for the day. The CalMac ferry at Brodick arrived ahead of Waverley delay ing Waverley and cutting short the stay at Brodick to 1.5 hours. Waverley left Brodick as per timetable but arrived back at Helensburgh 20 minutes late despite "perfect" sailing conditions. I could say more but I am not usually one of the Waverley's critics. Surprised to find out you can't book a ticket on board for future sailings. Must contact the office in Glasgow. :(

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:28 pm

Waverley certainly took us cruising in the tropics today. Fandabytastic! Full load and fully booked for tomorrow and Sunday as well. Surprising how a wee glimpse of thon shiny thing brings the punters out.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:51 pm

Bob. Waverley's ticketing "technology" is still in the dark ages. Another example is that even if you buy a ticket online and print out "this is your ticket", you still have to go to the purser's office to convert it into a proper ticket. What a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Timekeeping is always going to be an issue when sharing piers with scheduled ferry services, which may have rail connections and therefore get priority. It won't be the last time that a late-running CalMac has caused serious delays for Waverley at Brodick; even the wee Island Princess can delay her at Kilcreggan. Today we were slightly late out of Rothesay and at Dunoon and Kilcreggan, but into Pacific Quay bang on five thirty, so well done AO'B and crew.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by yorkieman » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:43 am

Re on line booking, it used to say that if you ticked the Gift Aid box (where incidentally the declaration does not meet the HMRC requirements) then the fare included a voluntary 10% donation, now it no longer says that ... and in any case, it was impossible NOT to make this 'voluntary' donation as the fare remained the same if you did not tick the box! They would be well advised to regularise the GA situation as the ability to collect GA on fares does rely on a voluntary extra amount of not less than 10%.
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:28 am

alasdairmac wrote:Bob. Waverley's ticketing "technology" is still in the dark ages. Another example is that even if you buy a ticket online and print out "this is your ticket", you still have to go to the purser's office to convert it into a proper ticket. What a waste of everyone's time and effort.

Timekeeping is always going to be an issue when sharing piers with scheduled ferry services, which may have rail connections and therefore get priority. It won't be the last time that a late-running CalMac has caused serious delays for Waverley at Brodick; even the wee Island Princess can delay her at Kilcreggan. Today we were slightly late out of Rothesay and at Dunoon and Kilcreggan, but into Pacific Quay bang on five thirty, so well done AO'B and crew.

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If I remember correctly the tannoy announcement about the delay stated that CalMac had recently changed their schedule so this may be an ongoing issue. In the past the Waverley would have still allotted two hours for the Brodick stay but only 1.5 hours on Thursday. The people who boarded on Thursday at Brodick will have felt "cheated" A dilemma? Two hours for Brodick and arrive back half an hour late at Helensburgh or 1.5 hrs and lose custom?

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bobrobert
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:33 am

Something that I have been wondering about. I have the season ticket and it states in the conditions that it doesn't guarantee a place boarding Waverley. If there is a queue and they say ticket purchasers first and others second which queue do you get into? :?

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:04 pm

Had that very situation yesterday. Checked with the Purser when he was splitting the queue into booked and non-booked : if there are places available then friends get them first and I was allowed on with the pre-booked passengers.

I'd suggest best always to check and maybe phone the day before and book just to be sure. Again, a gap in their IT in that ideally they should have a friends reservations option in the booking system - maybe even one for your smartphone. It aint rocket science, as they say.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by yorkieman » Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:34 pm

alasdairmac wrote: Again, a gap in their IT in that ideally they should have a friends reservations option in the booking system - maybe even one for your smartphone. It aint rocket science, as they say.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Clydebuilt1971 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:01 pm

Just heard from a passenger that yet again the police are to meet the paddler at Helensburgh tonight due to an aledged attack on a bouncer by a passenger. WavEx get a grip here - cashing in on violent drunks of Saturday is not the answer to your probs!! Passengers on deck witnessed the purser admitting these people to the ship despite their condition which at last look was in contravention of the company's terms of carriage!! My source was on for the first time today with family and they are appalled. While you can't control everyone's behaviour there is a line, but in the name of revenue WavEx allow this to be crossed time and time again. This is an insult to the time and effort and sacrifice that people through the years have donated to keep that ship sailing.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:01 pm

Have to agree 100% Gav. The Saturday cruise is developing an unfortunate reputation and I know several folk who wont even contemplate doing it any more because of the appalling behaviour of an increasing minority. WEL need to stop putting revenue before the comfort, pleasure and above all safety of the vast majority of their passengers.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Clydebuilt1971 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:06 am

Ultimately it's the ships reputation that suffers. Maybe the events of yesterday will cause a rethink. Here's hoping!

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:48 pm

Waverley enters Loch Goil this afternoon. ;)
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Waverley departs Loch Goil this afternoon. :thumbup:
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by time out images » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:09 pm

a few picture s of her at rothesay
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Regards Thomas

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:11 am

Yesterday's sailing was a good one. Left Glasgow 15 minutes late and about 2 dozen passengers who didn't have tickets. Someone was arguing with the purser about being left behind. I arrived at 0915 without a ticket but I have a season ticket and was one of the "lucky" ticketless ones to board. At Greenock everyone got onboard, so everyone must have had tickets? At Largs only ticket holders got on board. The sun came out as it approached Lochranza and stayed out for a while. Arrived back at Largs nearly half an hour late. At Greenock there was a lovely sunset which lasted all the way to Glasgow where the Waverley berthed 5 minutes late. A good job in catching up. Overall a smashing day. However despite leaving people behind I have seen the ship busier. Just my imagination or have they lowered the sailing numbers?

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by duncanwilson » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:34 pm

The numbers have indeed been lowered. Something to do with the weight of the ship. It is unfortunate since the weather has been so good and she has been unable to take a full load of passengers and the fuel still has to be paid for.
When Waverley was inspected for a passenger certificate she was fully stored up with beer kegs, window plates and fuel etc.
This affected her weight and so the passenger numbers were reduced. There is a technical name for it which escapes me at the moment.
I was on board yesterday as well. Not everyone who boarded at Greenock had a ticket while at Largs there were a few who were held back, but were let on at the last minute.
It occurred to me that, had we sailed to Largs first and then Rothesay on the return trip, then we would have made up a lot of time and fuel.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:50 am

I was at the head of the queue on Sunday and I heard what the purser was saying to another of the crew. At 09.55 he would let 10 on which I was sixth. Another 5 minutes passed and more were let on and some left behind. How could he make a judgement about leaving some at Glasgow without tickets and let others without tickets on at Greenock? Surely it should be first come first served? It is "possible" that no ticket less passengers will turn up at Greenock and Largs. He obviously didn't know how many were booked. It turns out if you have a season ticket and tell him you have a phone booking you get on - whether or not you have - and if you don't have one you wait. It is possible to get turned away at Glasgow with a season ticket and a ticket less person will get on at Greenock. Then again they have your money? Some "subterfuge" needed in future? They have a list on board of season ticket holders who have phoned that isn't there at the initial boarding. I suppose there isn't a 100% fare - pun intended - system. To sum up they don't have accurate numbers of ticket less passengers and ticketed passengers. What would the new limit for passengers be? The public should be told.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by SCameron » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:16 pm

The current restriction in passenger loadings represents about a 15-20% reduction compared to previous levels - this would not have been such a problem in the previous five or six July periods but the good weather this year will have accentuated the effect of the restriction. The current certificate expires on 15th August - hopefully means will have been found to get the allowed numbers up a bit as the current levels are insufficient for key busy sailings. Presumably beer kegs and full fuel tanks will again be a feature as they represent a real sailing condition. Its 13 years since the hull and superstructure were taken back to the metal and, if you've ever lifted a big can of marine paint you'll realise the extra weight that all those coats of paint represent. Obviously that will be no different from when the current certificate was issued.

Regarding "The public should be told", that is absolutely correct. In law a UK-registered passenger vessel must display (not just possess) a current passenger certificate in a public area of the vessel. Waverley's is displayed on theport-side wooden bulkhead just outside the dining saloon.

SC

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:55 pm

Thanks for the information. It is rather ironic that the reduction has coincided with the "good" weather which should have boosted the coffers.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:17 pm

I have held my 'wheesht' for an unusually long time, for me, and resisted negative comment given the already swelling catalogue of problems and complaints. I am sure many others are doing the same. In a very small way I have in the past made a contribution to the Waverley cause, and at all times I have admired the dedication of the small band of faithful volunteers who for many years have given their time and expertise unselfishly and at their own cost. A great benefit has been derived from those stalwarts who steered Waverley to an extended life by their imagination, management skills and significant support - and I guess the significant Stuart Cameron contributions have to be up there near the front of the line of merit.

However, the depressing miscommunication, confusion, mismanagement and amateurism that has crept into the mix over recent years, due to carelessness or indifference, lack of professionalism or disrespect for the elderly or in other ways disadvantaged customers, is a great disappointment. The absence of any learning curve or effort to correct past errors must be a considerable deterrent to new or repeat custom and is denying pleasure to the select fans of the old girl and trip 'doon the watter'. It is particularly distressing when parties of disadvantaged folk are affected, and it is a great credit to the forbearance of their supporters and organisers, such as Neil Campbell, who has had more than one disappointment and frustration despite having done all the right things - is hard to bear and has to be a major disincentive to repeat the experience.

Having recently retired, and having never been away on the Waverley ( :oops: ), despite plenty of invitations and encouragement in the past, it has been on my mind since the turn of the year to embark on a trip with the Mediterranean One in tow. However, having read all the various reports in the last few months, where even the booking / payment method is dependent on what you read or who you listen to, and there does not appear to be a guaranteed system, that plan has been kicked well into touch, albeit with some regret.

The Waverley story is a great one, and it has often been the case that economics, legislation, service charges, etc., have been a constant threat, stayed and avoided by the continuing perseverance and support of the Friends of Waverley. How sad it will be if the previously referenced miscommunication, confusion, mismanagement and amateurism end up being the factors that finally brought to an end this cultural history of sailing 'doon the watter'.

I pay tribute and respect to the small band of dedicated customers that turn up throughout the season to support their great love of the Clyde, Cruising and fine vessel - despite all these disappointments and frustrations - if only the Management could show the same respect to their customers as you do to the concept of cruising the waters .............
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by SCameron » Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:52 pm

Angus,

Thanks for your note. Much of what you have written concurs closely with the views of many Waverley supporters (including me). You may not be aware that there has been significant changes in the management team in recent years to some effect but not to sufficient effect. So, in terms of management change it is not just a people thing, its much deeper than that. Things are changing but not quickly enough. That stated neither I nor anyone else I've spoken to or listened to have a clear vision on how to 'sort it' although well-meaning folk think they have. This is not an optimistic note because, currently, it is not an optimistic situation. The recent boost in custom probably doesn't secure Waverley's future in 2014 let alone long term.

Just to clarify, as its probably not clear to everyone, the ‘Paddle Steamer Preservation Society’ and the ‘Friends of Waverley’ are two very different entities. The PSPS is a company limited by guarantee and a registered charity. It was founded in 1959 to support the preservation of paddle steamers. While it has predominantly supported Waverley to the sum of many millions of pounds (raised through its 3000-strong UK and overseas membership) it has also supported PS Kingswear Castle, PS Maid of the Loch and PS Medway Queen with grants or interest-free loans in past times. PSPS holds 100% of the shares in the owning company of KC and is the majority shareholder in Waverley SN Co, the charity registered in Scotland that owns PS Waverley and MV Balmoral. PSPS is the body that most Waverley supporters have been part of for many years (42 in my case) and will continue to be the main enthusiast support body for paddle steamers in the UK for the foreseeable future.

‘Friends of Waverley’ is not an incorporated body. It is an initiative of WSN, promoted by the independent Waverley Development Group (Cllr Charlie Gordon, Sir Bill MacAlpine, etc). It started last year to build a support group specifically for Waverley. As it is not an incorporated body like PSPS there is no reported data like number of members, etc.

Waverley has survived many crises in her near 4 decades under the preservationist banner and, hopefully, will be around for a long while to come. At present it looks like the easy times (not that there was ever many of them) are fast fading memories.

SC
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by SCameron » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:31 pm

duncanwilson wrote:It occurred to me that, had we sailed to Largs first and then Rothesay on the return trip, then we would have made up a lot of time and fuel.
Duncan,
Returning to Largs first would indeed have saved time but it would have represented a big problem for those passengers that embarked at Largs on the outward sailing for the short sailing to Bute to spend the afternoon in Rothesay. This has long been a feature of ‘Arran via the Kyles’ schedules going out via the Kyles of Bute and back via Garroch Head. In my humble opinion ‘Arran via the Kyles’ is one of the greatest Clyde excursion routes of all time stretching back, as it does, to the Victorian era. Mind you at that time the operating vessels did not have to call at all the same piers on the return leg. It could rely on fleetmates to provide convenient connections. That kind of stuff still happens on the Swiss lakes but it disappeared from the Clyde many moons ago, never to return. With one vessel I’m afraid the return order of pier calls must be the exact reverse of the outward leg even if it does mean an extra half hour or whatever steaming time.
SC

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:21 am

:( At Helensburgh yesterday for the sail to Glasgow and back, a few disappointed people left behind, as booked passengers embarking at Greenock.
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:27 am

Departing Helensburgh yesterday. :wave:
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Sat Aug 10, 2013 10:05 am

Aye - she was ram jam fu' going up the river from Greenock.
With over 400 on the main day trip to Rothesay, another not too bad payday for the auld girl

ps. nice to see Graeme Gellatly back on board as relief master. Wonder if the tide will be right for a wee diversion through the Burnt Isles this afternoon?

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:36 am

Just noticed WEL's new-look website, Quite impressive visually, well laid out and not too cluttered. On-line booking is a big improvement and at last a facility for Friends of Waverley to book on-line. it's a first step in the right direction and so a big "Well done" to the guys and gals at Lancefield Quay

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by yorkieman » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:59 pm

Good to see that they have updated the Gift Aid declaration to current requirements .... but you may have to be brave to phone them as shown to try to get a ticket without the '10% extra' donation which is otherwise built into the fare structure!
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:22 pm

Waverley alongside Helensburgh this morning on a rather dull day but improving later. :-P
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:30 pm

Departing Helensburgh this morning. :D
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:14 pm

Quote S Cameron Post# 123.

The current restriction in passenger loadings represents about a 15-20% reduction compared to previous levels - this would not have been such a problem in the previous five or six July periods but the good weather this year will have accentuated the effect of the restriction. The current certificate expires on 15th August - hopefully means will have been found to get the allowed numbers up a bit as the current levels are insufficient for key busy sailings.

Unquote

Any up-date to this post? Two weeks to go to the end of the season. I suspect the last Sunday sailing will be busy and an increase in passenger volume would be good. :clap:

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:21 pm

A rather dreich and blustery Saturday as the Waverley comes alongside Helensburgh Pier today. :-P
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:24 pm

Alongside Helensburgh Pier today with a fair crowd on board. 8-)
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:27 pm

Helensburgh Pier today. :thumbup:
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:30 pm

Next stoap Dunoon! :wave:
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by SCameron » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:48 pm

bobrobert wrote:Quote S Cameron Post# 123.

The current restriction in passenger loadings represents about a 15-20% reduction compared to previous levels - this would not have been such a problem in the previous five or six July periods but the good weather this year will have accentuated the effect of the restriction. The current certificate expires on 15th August - hopefully means will have been found to get the allowed numbers up a bit as the current levels are insufficient for key busy sailings.

Unquote

Any up-date to this post? Two weeks to go to the end of the season. I suspect the last Sunday sailing will be busy and an increase in passenger volume would be good. :clap:

Afraid not the new passenger certificate issue by the MCA Glasgow Marine Office on 13th August has passenger maximums as follows

Class III areas 700 passengers

Class IV and V 800 passengers (or 484 under Mode 1 operation which has crew Minimum of 15 compared to 19 for Mode 2 operation)

The new certificate expires on 31st October 2013.

SC

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by SCameron » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:53 pm

riverman wrote:Waverley alongside Helensburgh this morning on a rather dull day but improving later. :-P
Paul - yes, Capt Steve Colledge (hence the St David's pennant on the jackstaff) I believe Capt Steve Mishel was on midweek (St Andrews salstice). Capt O'Brian flies the Pilot Jack.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by SCameron » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:01 pm

riverman wrote:Alongside Helensburgh Pier today with a fair crowd on board. 8-)
Paul, Piper is Mr John Low of Helensburgh Pipe Band (and Doosan Babcock!) - think his colleagues may have been braving the rain at "the Worlds" on Glasgow Green. It was a dreich sail down river and I jumped ship here for a quick visit to McLaren's before getting the train back to Glasgow - by then the sun was out although it was still decidedly breezy.

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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:51 pm

Thanks for info. Stuart and sorry I missed you on the Pier.
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by bobrobert » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:44 am

SCameron wrote:
bobrobert wrote:Quote S Cameron Post# 123.

The current restriction in passenger loadings represents about a 15-20% reduction compared to previous levels - this would not have been such a problem in the previous five or six July periods but the good weather this year will have accentuated the effect of the restriction. The current certificate expires on 15th August - hopefully means will have been found to get the allowed numbers up a bit as the current levels are insufficient for key busy sailings.

Unquote

Any up-date to this post? Two weeks to go to the end of the season. I suspect the last Sunday sailing will be busy and an increase in passenger volume would be good. :clap:

Afraid not the new passenger certificate issue by the MCA Glasgow Marine Office on 13th August has passenger maximums as follows

Class III areas 700 passengers

Class IV and V 800 passengers (or 484 under Mode 1 operation which has crew Minimum of 15 compared to 19 for Mode 2 operation)

The new certificate expires on 31st October 2013.

SC
Thanks for that information. Now which Class does the Waverley come under or does it fluctuate for some reason? I have asked to join your Facebook page which I discovered yesterday. I have concerns about the Waverley but not as extreme as the persons that were banned or the grumpy "crew" on Ted's steamship forum. ;)

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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:10 pm

A touch of class, as she passes Dumbarton Rock bound for Largs this morning. :D
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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:17 pm

Outwards for Largs and beyond. 8-)
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alasdairmac
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by alasdairmac » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:19 pm

just noticed on AIS that she's heading to Largs from Brodick. Anyone have any idea what the problem is with Ayr?

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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:04 pm

It's that time of the week again as Waverley approaches Helensburgh Pier on a dull morning but brightening up later. :D
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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:07 pm

Alongside Helensburgh Pier. :)
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riverman
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Re: WAVERLEY 2013

Post by riverman » Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:12 pm

Next stoap doon the watter the delights of Dunoon. :thumbup: :wave:
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