Please support ClydeMaritime by clicking on some of our adverts
Freeman of Eriskay
That's why I love to be on board LOFOTEN! Not telling things can not go wrong, but I always have a safe feeling when downstairs in my cabin!There is enough safety material on board for all of us!Angus Mac Kinnon wrote:Bound to call into question aspects of crusie ship design and stability; whilst these stanndards are very high nowadays with all our new-found technology, computerised checks and monitoring, etc., have never felt comfortable with these multi-storey vessels, same as modern tall and narrow skyscrapers put the frighteners on me. Gut feeling just screams out loudly - W R O N G !
BIg question now of couse is "why was he where he was?" That's a route that the Costa ships take regularly and so they definately were not in (for them) uncharted waters. Let's hope the death toll stays down at 3.
Irrespective of computer analyses, calculations, and the whole plethora of modern technology, any experienced seaman who knows his stuff will feel apprehensive when seeing the size, height and proportions of these mammoth vessels. The old adage 'the bigger they are the harder they fall' comes to mind. The greatest concern for me is the astonishing number of passengers they carry - it is being reported that Costa Concordia had 4,000 on board - this makes the TITANIC seem like a Channel ferry in comparison, a major disaster mid-ocean, a-la-Titanic, doesn't bear thinking about.
Stern and side views of Costa Concordia - taken on 24th of October 2008 in Malta's Grand Harbour
(and a view of the super-yacht Indian Empress that was lying nearby that day)
Freeman of Eriskay
The MSC operated POESIA ran aground off Port Lucaya, Grand Bahama on the 7th Jan.
Managed to get her off assisted by a number of tugs.
L 30 Aug 2007
Thats all folks. Sean. E28
Freeman of Eriskay
I can see questions being asked as to why a ship that size went through the 'gap' as shown on charts - not a lot of room!
That is unbelievable! To even consider taking a ship of that size, and with 4000 people onboard, is mind boggling. And at night! I think at least the Master could be charged with unnecessarily hazarding his vessel. The other thing that comes to mind, in this modern day and age of Bridge Management Teams, and SMS, is did none of the other officers question the wisdom of the route? There have been suggestions that the Master was not even on the bridge at the time when his vessel was in very close proximity to the shore, which, if true, suggests that his ideas about priorities come into question also.
In a TV interview the master stated that he had planned to be, and was, 300 metres from charted hazards - 300 metres!
To consider such manoeuvre in daylight, on something coaster sized would be seen as particularly foolhardy if not a serious error of judgement, but on a 115000GRT passenger ship with over 4000 souls onboard and at night, it appears to go well beyond negligence.
I rather suspect his career is at an end, together with those who were on watch, not to mention possible criminal charges against all and sundry.
I'm sure there will be some serious fallout over this incident, both for Costa/Carnival and the passenger ship industry as a whole, especially with regards to the chaos witnessed during abandonment, e.g. lack of boat drill, passengers running around trying to find spaces on lifeboats because they didn't know where to go, lack of confidence in the headcount etc.
This has been the first serious accident with one of these new behemoths, but one of the first things I've noticed being called into question - quite rightly in my view - is simply are these ships getting too big? There has been growing consensus for some time in the maritime world that they most certainly are. Indeed, we only have to consider what might have happened if she had foundered further offshore and in deeper water - at the moment beaching the ship appears to have been the principal factor in the number of lives saved, going by the (visible) damage sustained, which appears to go well beyond 'assumed damage' for survivability. In deeper water she would have capsized/sank quickly and I don't think I'm exaggerating when I suggest that loss of life would have been particularly severe.
This article is from the Dutch "Koopvaardij" maybe somebody can translate it?
Kapitein cruiseschip verdacht van dood door schuld
Francesco Schettino, de kapitein van het gekapseisde cruiseschip
Costa Concordia, is zaterdag aangehouden.
Hij is al uren ondervraagd. Hij wordt verdacht van dood door schuld, het veroorzaken van het zinken van een schip en van het in de steek laten van passagiers, aldus Italiaanse media.
Volgens het Openbaar Ministerie in het Toscaanse Grosseto heeft de kapitein het schip al vrijdagavond om 23.30 uur verlaten, terwijl de laatste reddingsboot met passagiers pas om 03.00 uur 's nachts vertrok.
Schettino had voor zijn aanhouding tegen de Italiaanse tv gezegd dat het stuk rots waar de Costa Concordia vrijdag tegenaan voer, niet op de zeekaart staat. 'Dit obstakel had er niet moeten zijn', aldus de kapitein.
'We hadden genoeg water onder ons moeten hebben.' Volgens inwoners van het eilandje Giglio die de zee rond het eiland goed kennen, is dat niet waar: De rotsen, Le Scole genoemd, staan gewoon op de kaart.
- Site Admin
- Posts: 998
- Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:57 pm
- Location: Ardrossan, Ayrshire
"Cruise ship captain accused of manslaughter
Francesco Schettino, the captain of the capsized cruise ship
Costa Concordia, was arrested Saturday.
He was interrogated for hours. He is accused of involuntary manslaughter, causing the sinking of a ship and the abandonment of passengers, according to Italian media.
According to the Public Prosecutor in Tuscany Grosseto, the captain the ship was to leave Friday evening at 23.30 hours, while the last lifeboat with passengers only at 03.00 am departed.
Schettino for his arrest on the Italian TV said that the rock where the Costa Concordia Friday against it do, not on the nautical chart. "This obstacle could not be," said the captain.
"We had enough water under us should have." According to residents of the island of Giglio that the sea surrounding the island is well known, is not true: the rocks, Le Scole given are just on the map."
You are one of the few who has illustrated the real danger and risk here, i.e. what if an incident like this happened in deep waters?
Ships of this size, carrying upwards of four to five thousand passengers and crew, and irrespective of whether they have any inherent design, engineering or workmanship frailties, just have to increase the risk factors to levels previously unknown outside of maritime warfare.
The fact that this cruise liner has sailed all over the place for a number of years, successfully other than the odd minor incident, would suggest that the vessel is sound enough and what has happened had little to do with the vessel and everything to do with the judgement and competence of those who were 'managing' her.
That aside, it is high time the relevant authorities recognised the dangers and risks that these 'behmoths' introduce on the seas, and spend less time doing health and safety analyses of kids playing conkers and gave some thought to a mammoth ship with anywhere between 3000 - 5000 people on board have an outbreak of fire, serious disease, breakdowns in hurricane force weather conditions, or some suchlike horror story.
Even if they cannot regulate the size down to Henk's favoured LOFOTEN, at least introduce restrictions and limitations that ultimately decrease the high risks these cruise liners pose presently. It is a fact that a large proportion of the passengers who can afford to indulge on these cruises are advanced in years and, under stressful circumstances, are not best equipped to deal with a crisis.
Of course the cruise liner industry will scream from the rooftops, the industry is too lucrative for it to be any other way, but disregard these bandits and have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Remember, it was Costa who reneged on the significant contract held with Cammell Laird and put that historic Company to the wall. Not all cruise operators are that crass, but nonetheless they are of the same genre and certainly would not attract any synmpathy from my direction.
I also heard from a interview with a passenger who had boarded earlier that day that their emergency drill wasnt due to take place until the next day after they had left Savona.
One hell of a lot of questions needing answered.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using Tapatalk
Freeman of Eriskay
With P & O the Drill takes place before the ship leaves Port on the First Day and woe betide anyone who does not turn up!
All 'New' crew, from the Captain down must attend a Safety Briefing/Drill as soon as they rejoin the ship, even if they have only been away for a week.
Last time we sailed on another Carnival ship it was on Holland America's Voldendam from Vancouver and their drill was next morning, which was a sea day. That despite one of their other ships operating out of Vancouver having only a few months before suffered an engine room explosion on the night she left Vancouver and with the passengers having to muster without having been briefed. I believe they may have changed their practice since though.
It doesnt sound as if there is any international law on this, or at best its a very lax one.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Freeman of Eriskay
Before you leave Dubai Paul, you know there are some Svitzer tugs over there? Keep your camera dry until back in UK. Have a good trip!!Magoonigal wrote:Yes, we join ORIANA on Sunday in Dubai to do the next leg of her World Cruise across to Hong Kong. Our boarding time is 12-30 and I would be very surprised if our safety briefing is the next day, especially in the current circumstances.
Sent from my GT-I8150 using Tapatalk
If your appetite and wallet are up for it, visit Jimmy's Kitchen in HK - best steaks ever! There are two of them - the original at Wyndham Street on the island and another at Ashley Road in Kowloon. Was back there last year -first time in a few years but its still as good as ever.Magoonigal wrote:Yep, one full day in Dubai on the way and three nights in Hong Kong on the way back.
Even bought a new Camera for the trip!!
Apologies for digressing off subject
Freeman of Eriskay
http://www.cruise.co.uk/images/Cruise/c ... vage_0.pdf
Moving Costa Concordia cruise liner 'could cost €100m'
Refloating the stricken COSTA CONCORDIA cruise liner will cost "far beyond" €100m (£83m), according to a dredging and maritime services company bidding for the task.
The chief executive of Royal Boskalis Westminster said today that recovering the ship was "an operation without precedent". Peter Berdowski, chief executive, said: "You're not talking about an operation of a few dozen millions but something that goes far beyond €100 million. "This is an operation without precedent. You have to imagine a big fat whale the size of a block of flats lying on its side, accidentally supported by two rocks." He said Boskalis has put
forward a "responsible and careful way" to refloat the cruise liner. The COSTA CONCORDIA has lain off the coast of the Italian island of Giglio since January after running aground on rocks and partially sinking in an accident. Boskalis's SMIT business has already won the contract to remove fuel from the ship. It is understood that the Dutch company, which founded its UK arm, the Westminster Dredging Company in the 1930s, is one of six to have submitted a proposal to remove the ship. Some of the rival bidders have proposed cutting up the COSTA CONCORDIA, which would be a cheaper alternative initially. The final decision will be taken by insurers and Carnival, the owner of the cruise ship. Carnival has warned that it could take a year for 951ft long COSTA CONCORDIA to be moved. Boskalis and its subsidiaries have a long history of salvaging vessels. It raised the Russian nuclear submarine KURSK after it sank in 2000, and lifted the HERALD OF FREE ENTERPRISE, the British car ferry which capsized in 1987, resulting in the deaths of 193 people. Carnival has forecast that the COSTA CONCORDIA disaster will reduce its profits by up to $175m (£112m) and says the ship has been deemed a "total loss". It has predicted earnings per share this year of $1.40 to $1.70, compared with $2.42 last year. Source : telegraph.co.uk
- SITE INFORMATION
- ↳ READ ME FIRST
- ↳ Housekeeping
- OUR FAMILY OF SITES
- ↳ CLYDE
- ↳ Pleasure Craft
- ↳ Clyde-Built Ships: Photography
- ↳ Clyde Shipbuilders
- ↳ Clyde Shipowners
- ↳ Shipping at Ayr and Troon
- ↳ The Elderslie Drydocks of Scotstoun West
- ↳ CALEDONIAN MARITIME RESEARCH TRUST
- ↳ The CMRT website
- ↳ Ships and Shipowners
- ↳ Shipbuilders
- ↳ FOGHORN
- ↳ BOARD OF TRADE
- ↳ UK & Ireland
- ↳ Humber
- ↳ Bristol Channel
- ↳ Rest of Europe
- ↳ Gibraltar
- ↳ Netherlands
- ↳ Westerschelde
- ↳ Asia / Australasia / Africa / Americas
- ↳ Non-Clyde Shipowners
- ↳ Vroon Offshore
- ↳ Vroon Freighters
- ↳ Hurtigruten
- ↳ Safmarine
- ↳ ESVAGT
- ↳ Mærsk
- ↳ Danish Ships
- ↳ Foreign Ships
- ↳ Without Prefix
- ↳ Drilling
- ↳ Nedlloyd
- ↳ Sea-Land
- ↳ Brostrøm
- ↳ Mercosul
- ↳ Mærsk Supply Service
- ↳ Seago Line
- ↳ Hamburg-Süd
- ↳ WARSHIPS / WARTIME
- ↳ Royal Navy Shipping
- ↳ Foreign Naval Shipping
- ↳ The War at Sea
- ↳ RN Warships and Auxiliaries built on the Clyde
- ↳ TUGS AND TOWING
- ↳ Alexandra Towing
- ↳ Bugsier
- ↳ Fairplay
- ↳ Fam. Kooren
- ↳ Fop Smit
- ↳ Harms Bergung
- ↳ Johnston Warren
- ↳ Leen Smit (I.S.M.)
- ↳ Letzer
- ↳ Liverpool Screw Towing
- ↳ Lütgens & Reimers
- ↳ Manchester Ship Canal Company
- ↳ Multraship
- ↳ NDL/HAPAG Lloyd
- ↳ NRS / NVS
- ↳ Petersen & Alpers
- ↳ Piet Smit
- ↳ Reederij Goedkoop
- ↳ S.A.R.H.
- ↳ Schelde Sleepvaart Bedrijf
- ↳ Sleepdienst En Avant (Teun Muller)
- ↳ Sleepdienst Willem Muller
- ↳ Smit International
- ↳ Smit-Tak
- ↳ Steel and Bennie
- ↳ Svitzer Fleet
- ↳ Svendborg Bugser
- ↳ Tees Tugs
- ↳ Tyne and Wear Tugs
- ↳ UNION (Unie van Redding & Sleepdienst)
- ↳ United Towing of Hull
- ↳ URAG (Unterweser Reederei GmbH)
- ↳ W.H.J. ALEXANDER – Sun tugs
- ↳ U.R.S.
- ↳ v/d Akker
- ↳ Wijsmuller
- ↳ FISHING VESSELS
- ↳ EUROPEAN FLEET REGISTER - SEARCH ENGINE
- ↳ UK/IRELAND PLN CODES
- ↳ OFFSHORE SUPPORT VESSELS
- ↳ CRUISING
- ↳ YACHTING
- ↳ MARITIME ART
- ↳ RAIL
- ↳ AIRCRAFT
- ↳ MAYDAY
- ↳ GENEALOGY / RESEARCH
- OTHER USEFUL INFORMATION
- ↳ Maritime Links
- ↳ Weather Links
- ↳ Miscellaneous
- ↳ FOR SALE
- ↳ WANTED
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests
ClydeMaritime is a resource for all shipping news on the Clyde and beyond.
In addition to this forum, our main website contains listings for Arrivals and Departures on the Clyde, historical information and articles related to the Clyde and details of Cruise Ship visits and much more.