Is it the end for Clydesite

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:56 pm

Meanwhile, front pages of TugTalk and Clydebuilt Database are back, and with indication that work is going on behind.

dougie-coull · Post by **dougie-coull** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Another update from BB, but he seems to have ground to a halt due to lack of support from the host company -

"To all TT and Clydesite visitors...well I've managed to get all things resolved regarding the restoration of the sites to their server, but there is a database problem that defies all attemtps to fix it so far. Yet again I need to wait for senior techs to look into it, after spending the morning trying myself and with their chat-based support workers....it seems since the restoration the databases have locked up, and as you know, the sites are run via databases, so I need to wait until someone manages to figure out how the problem occurred."

Bill Harvey · Post by **Bill Harvey** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:50 pm

BB should start taking a serious look about a compensation claim with the server company and see if that spurs some interest in obtaining a quick resolution.

Money talks, moreso if your likely to have to pay out.

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:41 pm

The following has been added to the sites by Bruce:

<<<<<<<<<<<
Please dont post as yet (unless you dont mind the posts getting deleted)
I've managed to get my head round some things as have support, but the backup is not very recent. I am still waiting to see if we can get a more recent back up.
>>>>>>>>>>>

If TT is typical, the site seems to function normally though the messages currently there end at 15/8/2011, with the exception of 2-5/3/2012.
I suspect all the Clydebuilt database amendments are missing for a similar period - there are just a few recent ones from 8-9/3/2012.
I am sure Bruce mentioned earlier on in this hiatus that he had his own backups, but I don't know what he meant by that (and that message is amongst those that have disappeared, I think)

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:23 pm

Well That's made my day!
I know how you must feel David after all the hard work you have put in
This is not the first time this has happened and I've only just caught up with some of the previous losses. It looks like we have lost some of them yet again plus of course the new additions
Cheers
Woody

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 12:21 pm

I have noticed that there are a lot more images missing from the gallery in the database

The titles for the pictures are still there but instead of the images there is the dreaded red cross

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:28 pm

... and no access to the database for editors (at least this evening) - not that I have any intention of spending any time on this unless and until there is some clarity from Bruce on whether there actually is a back-up later than 8/2011. He seems to have gone to ground again. Anything on Facebook?

Post by **mcmahos** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:16 am

There's been nothing of note recently - except him playing games on it!

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:45 pm

Not a peep out of Bruce, it seems.
Site falls down - eventually he surfaces - makes a few phone calls - finds someone else to blame - loses 9 months content - buggers off again

Playing facebook games still? Maybe collecting a few pence from google-ads.
Meanwhile treating anyone who cares about the Clydebuilt database and the other sites with utter contempt.

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:00 pm

When I made all these same points 2-3 years ago on Clydesite, expansively, with suggestions on cures to the various ills that were surfacing, I was shot down in flames and accused of being far too harsh on a man that clearly had problems, was unwell, etc, etc. I was made to feel pretty crap at that time, some of the aggressors came as a great surpise to me - that was a shock on the system, so in any event I slowly backed off and left it knowing I had given it my best shot. It would be very easy now, in the light of hindsight, to say "See? You were warned. It was inevitable we were heading from a decent organisation into one of chaotic bedlam, losing stalwarts from the site, then losing the site or large sections of it". Yes, it is all very sad to see, but was all so predictable. I don't give a hoot about all those who I upset by being 'so harsh' with BB, but I do feel for folk like yourself, Stuart Cameron, Bruce Allan, Ian Buxton, and the other more recent contributors to the Clydesite Database, that's where it really pains me.

Henk · Post by **Henk** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:06 pm

Good words Angus, I can feel with you!

Post by **yorkieman** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:15 pm

Like Angus, I am reluctant to say 'told you so' but I did stop doing any updates to the d/base maybe 3 years or more back as I just lost confidence in its permanence after earlier hiccups which were then less serious than more recent ones. So I said little but voted with my feet, as it were.
It would be a mammoth taske to re-write the whole thing into this site, but big projects have been tackled by 'teams' over several years .... would the task for example be any greater than Dave Waller has taken on with his Tyne site, and the structure there is I think a fine example of how it should be done, quite different from the concept and lay-out that BB introduced 10 years or more back. As with our Tees-built site, a few dedicated people completing just a few each day with a common template can achieve a lot over 2-3 years. Could such a team be assembled on the Clyde?
Have a look at this as an example
http://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/index.html
and for an example of a completed yard
http://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/WoodSkinner.html

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:51 pm

Looks an excellent structure and the quality is most impressive. (That has to be the best image I've ever seen of the magnificant old KGV which ended her days here in Troon) As you say, just about anything is possible if the dedication is there and two or three work away steadily at the job. The one thing that is clear now - any possibility of utilising the work already done, per Clydebuilt Database, fades more with every passing day - BB has made it clear he has no intention of continuing or safeguarding that major work, and its demise, should that be its fate, he should carry on his conscience forever more, considering the hard work put in by a select few to keep it going over the years.

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:17 am

Glad to have stimulated some positive thoughts! I'll catch up with developments over time, as off abroad tonight until the end of the month. Thanks and best wishes to all here.

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:26 pm

I've had enough of BB's intransigence. A webmaster has to communicate to its members and he has failed lamentably in that requirement. I would certainly help all I could to start again with a database that was allowed to develop from the informed contributers that I've been privileged to associate with and learn from these recent years.
ba

Andrew Gilmour · Post by **Andrew Gilmour** » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:40 pm

If the ad`s go,the whole lot will go.

Andra.

valeman · Post by **valeman** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:18 am

From what I can see, there are two alternatives.
It may be distasteful to some but approach BB with a firm financial offer for the data and take it off his hands. I'd be willing to contribute a reasonable amount. Everyone has a price. Upside would be a personal copy of the database for everyone who contributed. Downside is it may not work.
Other possibility is to download what is on the the site and set up a new database. For those who have confronted the database, how much more information is there beyond what is brought up in a search? If there is not much more then a group of say 20 volunteers could divide the timeline (10 years or so each), download what is available and with a suitable script, reload it into a new database.
I'd say forget about all the wonderful pictures. They are gone. I'd certainly be more than willing to upload what I have contributed over the years. Graham

Post by **yorkieman** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:34 am

Distasteful indeed, I for one would not put a single £ in the direction of BB (been there, done that), but if any of you are feeling more generous then by all means have a whip round (you may need to buy the whip, first!).

IF a 'new start' was supported, it is possible to have a team effort based on a standard template, I am helping Dave with the Tyne site by entering data into a simple Word table and e-mailing back to him .... so that could be shared among any number of people .... BUT it needs a webmaster to own/run the site, set it up ideally (to me) in the same format as the Tyne site, and upload the data as it comes in and link it all to the index pages. The data arrangement should follow the Tyne pattern i.e. changes of name are alongside changes of owner, not separated as they are now which is a bit clumsy to follow.
No reason why photos that are out of copyright cannot be added, or simple sourced again from the extensive personal libraries which many of you have around the Clyde, and beyond. But that's another job for the webmaster.
It would also raise the issue of site ownership so that the site was never again dependent on one person, some sort of society or corporate body should own the site name and the data entered, the webmaster simpy acting as agent for it. So back to the old idea of forming a Clyde Maritime Heritage Society which could embrace even more, possibly eventually this site as well, and could well gain charitable status and the benefits arising therefrom.
Yes I know I have banged that drum before, but if I keep doing it someone may hear it. I could threaten you with the pipes instead .....

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:23 am

Oi, Yorkie, just you leave oor pipes oot the equation.

Bill Harvey · Post by **Bill Harvey** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:30 am

A basic question.

Being that Stuart Cameron appears regularly in postings on this site and also, was the originator of much if not all the base data at the outset, would he still have that info available and moreso be willing to subscribe to a "new-start" database if that avenue was to be taken? In this case all new info added after that on the old database would need adding again to the new one if unable to easily transfer it across.

As far as the old database is concerned, I would think that you would be unable to download anything in chunks of any size other than opening each individual vessel's detail sand copying those across so would presume a very long, ardous task, which would then require the reverse after any reformatting for the new database. Maybe I am wrong but a huge mountain ahead to negotiate!

Bill

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:40 am

Bill :

Perhaps Stuart will see your query and speak for himself, but knowing how jaundiced he was at the disgraceful demise of what he played such a large part in, and his treatment at the hands of the Owner, I would be unsurprised if he distances himself of anything appertaining to Clydesite - even though on here - a different site.

That possibly being the case, I will be bold enough to opine as follows : As things stand presently, and for the foreseeable future, Stuart Cameron would be extremly hard-pressed to spare anything like the time necessary for such an undertaking, even if he was inclined. As a very senior and top engineer in his organisation, his time is in much demand and indeed he spends an inordinate amount of that time travelling across the globe working ridiculous hours and can ill-afford to enjoy any leisure time for recuperation, let alone undertake a task that, let's face it, is best handled by someone with minimal commitments, e.g. part-time or retirees.

Also, it is some years sinnce SC was involved with Clydesite, and goodness knows when he last saw his original database which will have changed beyong recognition in the interim. Some of the other suggestions/volunteers offer a better solution in my view - i.e. break with Clydesite Database altogether, it is a lost cause, start from scratch, any hope of attracting a response from BB on acquisition of the Database, even at a cost, is nothing but a forlorn hope, I'm afraid, the man will not even respond except when it suits him and via a social networking system rather than using the natural communication stream his site offers ..... all very furtive, but should spell out quite clearly - HE DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW

Bill Harvey · Post by **Bill Harvey** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:28 pm

Angus,

Maybe a slight mis-interpretation of what I intended. I was not suggesting that Stuart himself start loading a database but more if he has still got his base info would he be willing to let a new team have access to it.

Bill

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:36 pm

Okay, Bill, but the differential between SC's original material and today's version is probably a 'step too far' to bridge.

Post by **yorkieman** » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:59 pm

Blast, just lost a typed reply!
The gist of it was much as Angus says, the original material will be very basic compared with all the additions made over 10 years or so, and other than providing a main yardlist (which could be got from other sources such as the WSS lists) it may not be a lot of benefit as opposed to a new start.
The other point is that access to info especially via the internet has improved so much that folk with little reference material at home could still at least make a start on many entries, and perhaps pass them on to others for completion.
Miramar and the Starke-Schell Registers on which it was based offer name/owner/fate for all except the very small vessels .... several LR's are on line via the Plimsoll scheme if other detail such as cylinder sizes are needed. Others such as 1882 are separately available. The CLIP site offers links to the MNL's, very valuable for early and small vessels.
For early vessels, 'A-Z of Steamships 1835-1875' PN Thomas and 'Steamers to 1830' FW Hawks are inexpensive sources on CD.

Hark, do I hear the skirl of the pipes as the Clans rise to the challenge ......

Post by **mcmahos** » Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:52 am

Having sent several emails and Facebook messages to BB, I sent him another message via Facebook yesterday asking if he would chat to me re the database, and despite him playing games since then on Facebook, I've not had the decency of a reply, even if it's to tell me where to go! Says it all really.

I've intimated this before, but given that the database is still essentially an MS Access database it should be reasonably straightforward to adapt into a new setup, whether here on CM or elsewhere, as has been mooted over on CS. But until a copy is procured there's not a lot that can be done. One 'could' manually copy/paste every entry from the existing database into a new excel table, which then gets imported into a new web database, but I dread to think how long that would take, and really don't advise going down that route.

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:52 am

Can one not threaten Bruce with a court action on something like false representation in order to have a reasoned discussion?
The site has never done what is says on the tin even when we paid for it. As life long members we must have some rights.
He has collected our contributions to the site under false pretences and promises and then lost and misused them. They are no longer accessible.
Some of us still cannot use the site and the site is being repeatedly “overhauled” when it is in fact being repeatedly decimated.
The advertisers would not take kindly to any action
I am no legal eagle and I am not volunteering to do this myself, but I would be interested in the views of those with better knowledge

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:23 am

With the best will in the world, even if there was a legal case, which I would very much doubt, BB is altogether too fragile a person to threaten or cajole - such a scenario would doubtless be enough to push him over the edge. He has been close to that point already on numerous occasions when the world and his brother were ON his side, and providing all the required encouragement and support, let alone if there was a concentrated effort to make him 'come in line'. As in the past when under pressure - he would simply freak out and withdraw further into his shell - he is not a man prepared to meet his demons face to face.

Legally, there are no contracts in place, no undertakings or commitments, and fees were very much a wishy-washy voluntary matter rather than a properly constituted or organised affair. Goodness gracious me, as Peter Sellers would say, - there has never ever been any accountability, reporting, declarations ..... no one even knew how many members there were across the Boards, the fiscal position or anything else. Clydesite is about as far removed from any legal status as these international terrorists that seem to be able to do what they like, in Great Britain anyway, with impunity.

The only possible way forward, as I see it, is if he was to agree to a head to head, with just one representative of the Membership, to discuss matters man-to-man, without acrimony or criticism of any kind, simply an exploration to discover whether there is any grounds for membership optimism now or in the future, or should all hope be abandoned and the great ship 'Clydesite' be simply allowed to founder. It would be important that ONLY ONE person handle this, and that the person is the selected choice of BB. Anything heavier could be counter-productive. Hopefully any choice he may put forward would have a diplomatic leaning, be uncritical, and have good negotiating skills, leaving the stage to BB himself to see whether anything can be salvaged from the disarray that has descended over the last year or two.

These are just my thoughts.

Post by **yorkieman** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:02 pm

Well put Angus.
Remember also that for most of the years that fees/subs were paid, they did not go to BB but to his companion of the time in Ayr.
Also, it's pointless to sue someone who has no money, which is a fair assumption, and you would simply lose your own costs which could be considerable.
Woody, everyone shares your frustration but my advice is forget BB and the old d/base and start again.
It needs a volunteer webmaster .... no great technical knowledge is needed, file transfer into a site is easy .... and a team of volunteers working on a standard input template.
It may be that Dave Waller would allow his 'master pages' to be copied over and simply adapted by change of title, shipyard list etc. so little set-up needed, if everyone agreed that it met the need, I would suggest only a minor change in the individual vessel format. There is scope to write a short history of the yards at the head of each yard listing, as Dave has done in many cases, plus aerial photos etc. In essence, it can be something much better than the old d/base.
I can't offer to be webmaster but I can offer to work on input as time is available, I have found that I can do up to 10 vessels in a spare hour if data is to hand.
But I would work on this only if the site was owned in a manner that secured its future beyond the life of any individual.

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:53 pm

Geoff Russel was a 'name' only, i.e. the banker - a convenience for BB who preferred, as always to remain anon, especially where funds were concerned.

The rest of what you say is pefectly sound .... but I still wonder if a broker could be found to unlock BB and resuscitate the old site at best, salvage the old Database at worst? Who do we know who is a background Henry Kissinger?

C'mon, old bean, you've been retired long enough, time you earned some of that millet I keep sending up there by road ...

Post by **yorkieman** » Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:57 pm

I'll not be Kiss-ingering with any blokes, that's for sure

vic mcclymont · Post by **vic mcclymont** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:33 am

Gents I have been following this post with interest, and I agree with the majority of the postings, there isn't a lot that can be done with regards to BB.
The best way forward is to start again, a time consuming task.
But I believe that there is a possible way forward, which could benefit all.
Vincent Gillen of the Mclean Museum has produced a list of ship built in Inverclyde, based on information published in the local press.
Could we not start a discussion with a view to sharing the information that he has and start a new database in conjunction with the museum.
Vincent's ship list is free to down load from the Museums web page.
Vic

Angus Mac Kinnon · Post by **Angus Mac Kinnon** » Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:59 pm

Are you volunteering? George could do with a hand, and since you are retired now with all the time in the world look upon it as a challenge ....... akin to stopping the job going off the board on a Clannie ....... : - )

vic mcclymont · Post by **vic mcclymont** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 12:04 pm

Typical disparaging remark from a "crude" ile man.
See your up to your usual tricks volunteering everyone but yirsel fur work annat.
I would be prepared to help and if you want I can initiate the discussion with Vincent to see if he would collaborate with us, as to the choice of program I will leave that to the experts.

Doxford Diesel · Post by **Doxford Diesel** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:18 pm

I have just read this entire thread from start to finish. As an original non-posting, but subscribing, member of Clydesite, I can only express surprise that it still exists at all. I stopped visiting the site several years ago, but just logged back in to find a former shadow of itself with massive amounts of information seemingly having disappeared. I also noted that (and I intend no offence to anyone here, or 'there'), that most of the names posting nowadays were not of the original membership. Did they sign up when the site became free to allcomers?

What struck me about this thread was that it has now been running for over a year. I may be on my own here, but the expression about flogging a dead horse springs to mind. Time to move on? Bruce Biddulph has had his chance, and more,to hand over control to his 'shareholders'. I would suggest that now is the time to bite the bullet and to get on with developing a new database, hosted on a reliable server by reliable people, and just to forget about the 'original' database.

Post by **yorkieman** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:23 pm

Vic, by all means raise the subject with him, we can always find yardlists to start again but the main problem as I see it is to find someone to host the site who has some permanence, if the McLean were to be willing to own the domain name and pay for a hosting package (perhaps with some voluntary contributions) then it could be set up and managed by a volunteer webmaster, in fact there could be multiple access for additions/updates as there has been with the old d/base but someone would need to index/link any new ship pages that had been uploaded.

One issue though is that any publicly funded body like a museum might be wary of 'publishing' the many photos of unknown or doubtful copyright which are available, in case of legal challenges, whereas a private web-owner can plead ignorance and then ask permission, or take the photo off if necessary .... a museum could do the same but they may have more strict guidelines to adhere to.
And of course it would be a resource for the whole of the Clyde region not just for Inverclyde.

EDIT .... wrote this as DD was writing his in support of the 'new start'.
The poor old horse is indeed dead. It died not of flogging but of sheer neglect.

Post by **mcmahos** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:52 pm

Doxford - yes this thread has been going for a while - albeit not always about the database. The ideal solution would be to get a copy of the database from Bruce - but numerous attempts at contact with him from several people have all met with silence.

The current debate both on here and with the original Clydesite pages is everyone thinking aloud as to what the next best course of action should be. And it's fair to say that a workable solution may not be too far away. There's plenty of space on our servers for it, it can be installed with existing software and allow multiple editors etc just like the existing one.

George/Vic - not sure about the museum route - it sounds like there would be an awful lot of missing data which folks have already contributed to the original database. As a fall back position then certainly worth considering though.

Stuart

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:58 pm

If it was manged by others would it be possible for Clydesite still to have access to the database as well or is that too complicated
That way Bruce/Clydesite would still have access to it but would not have to manage it, back it up etc. Maybe sharing may be more attractive to him

Post by **mcmahos** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:35 pm

Woody, it all depends on how and where it is managed. If a new database was to be set up, then certainly all the existing editors could have access to it and backups etc would be taken care of with the new owners - for example if it was here on ClydeMaritime, then I have daily backups of all my sites being stored both on- and off-site servers - the database would just be a new collection of folders to be backed up automatically. As to what Bruce does with the 'old' database is up to him - what we don't want though is for multiple copies popping up and all being edited by different people.

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:37 am

Just looking in from afar, and please with the drift of contributions over the last few days.
I do still think that if it is technically and legally possible to extract data from the existing d/b that would be preferable - but a new start does look more feasible.
To my thinking, BB has no copyright interest in the data itself, only in the ´wrapper´ - ie the database structure, and the editing structure.

If a new start is the inevitable a quick population of as many basic identities using another existing source would perhaps be the starting point once the d/b design and fields have been agreed (I think that there should be some discussion about that, as I can see some relatively small changes to the Tyne-Built model that I would put forward in due course). Several possible d/b sources have been mentioned. Ian Buxton also has a ´British built´ d/b (though I know not in what form or what detail) and there may be others. In any case, a clear set of editing/style rules should be discussed and agreed before the database gets into existence.

I agree that the photographs are secondary and can be added from scratch as and when - ignoring the existing collection.

David

Post by **yorkieman** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:38 am

David makes a valid point of course that historical info in itself cannot be copyrighted, just the specific form in which it is presented.
I use another shipping website where they have agreement from Miramar that a copy/paste of the info itself would not cause any copyright problems and of course Miramar is based on earlier printed volumes by Starke & Schell who in turn will have used pre-existing sources, and so it goes on ....
It is pertinent to note also that Miramar does allow searched by shipbuilder but the data does not extend into some items such as engine details which may be needed, nor can photos be accommodated. I don't know the content of the British-built d/base which Ian and a team have been working on for many years, or when it mat become available.
I suppose what I am trying to say is that there is no virtue in 'reinventing the wheel' by spending thousands of hours re-presenting what is already available on the internet, things having moved on considerably since the Clyde d/base was started. The motive for a new d/base should not rest just on parochialism/pride of covering a specific area/river, commendable though that is, but on creating an end product which adds significantly to the internet resources and which will stand the test of time by still being a main research resource in 50 years time.

Woody · Post by **Woody** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:27 am

Stuart
What I was rrying to suggest was that Clydestite would also be able to use the edited version of the database. Obviously there could only be one editing team
That way clydesite still retains an active database and Bruce does not have the hassle of updating and managing it etc
This might be attractive to him

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:45 pm

Just to note that Bruce B has tentatively surfaced on Clydesite Foghorn.

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Wed May 02, 2012 11:14 am

For the record, the Clydebuilt Database has now been restored by Bruce B to its 12/1/2012 state (the last he has - and better that the 8/2011 point that the server-owners had) and the editors' access also restored.

However, I remain deeply concerned about its medium/long-term future.

iainnevill · Post by **iainnevill** » Sat May 19, 2012 9:45 pm

As a non posting member of Clydesite for some years I just wanted to say how great it was at its best. The database was magnificent and I used to visit almost every day to get my "fix". The features were superb and I for one was happy to pay my yearly subscription. I would have also been willing to pay a bit extra for those who could not afford the fee. When I was on my PC for lengthy periods my wife would ask what I was looking at & my reply was always " Clyde Stuff". I really wish it would come back again.

Over the years there have been many disputes and comments about the manner in the way Clydesite was managed and probably many former subscribers have genuine grievances but if it is possible to get it back I, and I assume that many others would also be delighted.

I am most grateful to all those concerned with the management of ClydeMaritime and those who post on such interesting Clyde related topics. Nothing I have said about Clydesite detracts from my enjoyment of ClydeMaritime. Best Wishes to all, Iain

wreckmaster · Post by **wreckmaster** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:38 pm

Now that new problems have surfaced on Clyde Built , I am back to this post to gauge the mood of those still interested in a Clyde Built data Base. I have offered before and will do it one more time.
I am a professional programmer and will build an application similar to the BB site free of charge.
The only prerequisite would be that Four or Five persons would step forward and take joint ownership of the project.
The specifications for the project can be worked out between my team and the new owners.
The Annual costs for such a project are domain registration £10 and Hosting £100 to £150.

Wreckmaster

starr5 · Post by **starr5** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:25 pm

Wreckmaster if only we could go back to the beginning, thats not an option so a new beginning could be. I'm in

Mike P

wreckmaster · Post by **wreckmaster** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:52 pm

Sorry I should have been more specific in my Post, what I am offering to build is a new Clyde Built Ships Database and not the Discussion Boards as I think this role has already been filled by Clyde Maritime.

davidships · Post by **davidships** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:34 pm

Yes, Mick, you can count me in in principle. As you know, I have stood back from most active editing of the existing database following the last debacle (months of time and effort lost). Important to develop and debate a project outline addressing content, site security & management - and not least the relationship to the existing Clydebuilt database.

I still harbour the forlorn hope that BB will make the existing material available to allow an initial swift population of "New Clydebuilt". After all the vast majority of the editing has been done by those who are still around, mostly here - and certainly not forgetting Stuart C, who started it all off.

valeman · Post by **valeman** » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:55 pm

Would it be possible to begin with transcribing material from the current database into a common template format — say in an excel spreadsheet — and individuals could work at this individually by taking a year or two at a time and then submitting them to a central coordinator. Pretty sure this could be accomplished in a few months if enough joined in. It would not allow the photographic material to be moved but that can be addressed too at a later point. I'd certainly be willing to get involved and would be happy to supply whatever illustrations I can.

Post by **mcmahos** » Fri Jul 13, 2012 9:39 am

Graham - I am aware of someone who has started doing what you are suggesting. I've seen some of the data, but admit to not pursuing it much further at this stage. From what I've seen it would certainly be a time-consuming and tedious task to use it. What would be good to see is a list of all the input fields that are available to editors of the existing database, as the published one only shows the fields that are populated.

I've tried making contact with BB on several occasions to discuss the database and whenever it is has been mentioned I never receive a reply. Starting to compile a new database from scratch would be a huge effort given the volume of edits and additions over the years since it was first published. I'm of the opinion that it would be far better to meet with Bruce, eye to eye, and get a copy of it, and then use that as the base for a new database. There is plenty of capacity within my own server here to host it, whether using the existing software that I use, or by utilising the skills and offers of others such as Wreckmaster.

Stuart

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