SS Zealand

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flaviu
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SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:43 pm

Hello Friends
My name is Flaviu and I especially love diving and discover shipwrecks.
About a year ago we dove the ship off the coast of Atlit, Israel at a depth of about 86 meters.

Shipwrecks is one of the two ships wrecked by submarine U-97 in WWII - SS MEMAS or SS ZEALAND
After thorough research, we think that the ship is the SS ZEALAND and this week we dive down again so we can make sure the ship is the SS ZEALAND.

We know that the ship was rebuilt before sinking in the last picture I could find
http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?31476

I'd be happy if someone could help me to find more information like more pictures after the renovation, place of the bells, engime info, ship plans, stories from the sailors, captain ...
hope someone can help.

thanks a lot
Flaviu

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:40 pm

Nobody?

yorkieman
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by yorkieman » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:52 pm

If this is the ZEALAND of 1936 and lost in 1942, it seems very unlikely that she was 'rebuilt' as you mention, do you have any evidence for this?

http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/v ... sp?id=4081

MEMAS having been built in 1912 and passed through several owners, could be more likely to have been rebuilt as some stage in her life.
George Robinson
Freeman of Eriskay

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:31 pm

Thank you for the answer.

We dove the year 2011 and photographed the wreck. Attached to a video I did from the project.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FNaNIPtxUQ

I am looking for any information I can get and check under the water, more pictures, ship plans (I want to dive to the ship's engines) ...
Anything that can help accurately identify the ship.

Maybe we'll start from where the ship was built. YARD no. 655, IMO no.: 164363. Maybe there is archive with the ship plans. That we can see where the bells. . .

Maybe someone heard the stories of the survivors from the attack on the ship?
"On the 28th June 1942 she was torpedoed and sunk by a German submarine U-97 when S by SW of Haifa with the loss of ten crew and four gunners. Capt L.J. Branagan survived."

Maybe there are articles on the subject?

Thanks a lot Flaviu

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:35 pm

Plenty of information via following sources :

+ The Miramar website
+ Britain's War At Sea - A Diary of Ship Losses : John M. Young
+ The Fourth Service - Merchantmen at War : John Slader
+ U-Boat website - www.uboat. net
+ U-Boat Operations of the 2nd World War - Volume 1 : Kenneth Wynn
+ Clydesite.co.uk (Clydebuilt Database)
+ British Vessels Lost At Sea : 1939-1945 (HMSO / Patrick Stephens Ltd)
+ Axis Submarine Successes of WWII : Jurgen Rohwer

There was only about 8 minutes between the torpedoing of ZEALAND and that of MEMAS, therefore the wrecks of what remains of the two steamers must be reasonably close to each other.

Regards,
Angus Mac Kinnon

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wreckmaster
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by wreckmaster » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:32 am

Hi Flaviu
On the Admiralty chart I see two wrecks about 5nm west of Atlit, 2734 mtrs apart at a depth between 60 and 100 mtrs, I figure your diving one of these. The available evidence would leave me to believe that these two are the Zealand and Memas.
But which is which ?, below I have included some detail for both (hoping to pick up a bit more on the Zealand).
Both vessels were of similar dimensions but the superstructure on each was very different the Picture on the Clyde Built site will help with the Zealand http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/v ... sp?id=4081 the Memas may be identified by her dimensions, engine detail or some item found on the wreck such as brass plates on machinery as she was German built these will be in German, Delftware often carried company names or logo. The ships bell would be a great find but that's probably long gone.
If you have a sketch of the wrecksite I would like to see it.

MEMAS
Steel screw steamer
Schooner rig 3 masts

1755 grt / 906 nrt

Length 258.9 ft,
Beam 38.1 ft,
Depth of hold 17.8 ft
Forecastle 25 ft
Poop deck 69 ft

Engine: 1 triple expansion 3 cylinder, position aft.
Boilers: 2 single ended boilers.

ZEALAND

Steel Screw Steamer
1 Deck & 1 shelter deck and a Cruiser stern.
Length 262.2 ft,
Beam 40.2 ft,
Depth of hold 15.9 ft

Engine: 1 triple expansion 3 cylinder, 1 shaft 1 screw.
no other engine details yet.

The Zealand carried Aviation spirit in drums, if there is access to the cargo hold the drums should still be there.

Could you post the photos of the Memas from you video, I would like a closer look.

Best of luck with the dive and please keep us updated.

Mick

yorkieman
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by yorkieman » Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:15 pm

Additional engine details

MEMAS T3cyl (approx. 17, 28 & 44 x 35 inches) by Seebeck, Wesermunde
ZEALAND T3cyl (15, 25 and 41 x 33 inches) by Barclay, Curle

Surely the different position of the engines, aft or midships, must be the key to identifying which one is this wreck.
George Robinson
Freeman of Eriskay

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:03 pm

after you wrote that the Memas had 3 masts i think this is the right picture.
my sketch attached
we didint find "Aviation spirit in drum" just Wooden boards...
the bridge was like the Zealand and the propeller with 4 blades. i will attachh other videos from the dive.
Flaviu
Attachments
memas-1.jpg
SS Zealand.jpg

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Sun Jun 30, 2013 7:58 pm


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wreckmaster
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by wreckmaster » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:18 pm

yorkieman wrote:Additional engine details.
I was thinking number of boilers and or position of engines.
But I think that big apparatus on the after deck is a give away its clearly shown in the video.
Last edited by wreckmaster on Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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wreckmaster
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by wreckmaster » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:30 pm

flaviu wrote:"Aviation spirit in drum"
Did not expect that you would but I might expect some remnants of steel drums.
The Aviation fuel may have been the cause of the damage to the bow and the reason she went down so quickly.
I was also hoping for a bigger side view picture of the Memas as there was more then one vessel with this name.

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Angus Mac Kinnon
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by Angus Mac Kinnon » Sun Jun 30, 2013 8:37 pm

After 70 years of immersion in seawater, I would think it would be surprising to find any remains of the steel drums that contained the aviation fuel, being relatively thin wall to begin with.
Angus Mac Kinnon

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wreckmaster
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by wreckmaster » Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:55 pm

Could any one tell me what is that Apparatus on the after deck .
Attachments
zealand.jpg

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:21 am


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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:27 am

wreckmaster wrote:Could any one tell me what is that Apparatus on the after deck .
i thing that apparatus is the cargo pillars. you can see them on the second video. they have stairs on it for climbing. i think were used for cargo...

yorkieman
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by yorkieman » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:30 am

Surely they are just tall ventilators, unless you mean something different .....
George Robinson
Freeman of Eriskay

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davidwat
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by davidwat » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:34 pm

These are what we call Kingposts. In this pic they are being used both as ventilators and for cargo work with derricks attatched.
david watson

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wreckmaster
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by wreckmaster » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:29 pm

I can add the following to the specs for the Zealand from Prof Ian Buxton.

"She was a shelter deck vessel (which might indicate no poop/forecastle) 12 pass, a 73ft boatdeck (presume amidships), with a 23ft deckhouse on top. Sheer forward 6ft, aft 3.5ft. 139800 cuft cargo. Single screw triple exp. Two 11ft dia plus one 9.5ft boiler. Oertz rudder."

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:48 pm

wreckmaster wrote:Hi Flaviu
On the Admiralty chart I see two wrecks about 5nm west of Atlit, 2734 mtrs apart at a depth between 60 and 100 mtrs, I figure your diving one of these. The available evidence would leave me to believe that these two are the Zealand and Memas.
But which is which ?, below I have included some detail for both (hoping to pick up a bit more on the Zealand).
Both vessels were of similar dimensions but the superstructure on each was very different the Picture on the Clyde Built site will help with the Zealand http://www.clydesite.co.uk/clydebuilt/v ... sp?id=4081 the Memas may be identified by her dimensions, engine detail or some item found on the wreck such as brass plates on machinery as she was German built these will be in German, Delftware often carried company names or logo. The ships bell would be a great find but that's probably long gone.
If you have a sketch of the wrecksite I would like to see it.

MEMAS
Steel screw steamer
Schooner rig 3 masts

1755 grt / 906 nrt

Length 258.9 ft,
Beam 38.1 ft,
Depth of hold 17.8 ft
Forecastle 25 ft
Poop deck 69 ft

Engine: 1 triple expansion 3 cylinder, position aft.
Boilers: 2 single ended boilers.

ZEALAND

Steel Screw Steamer
1 Deck & 1 shelter deck and a Cruiser stern.
Length 262.2 ft,
Beam 40.2 ft,
Depth of hold 15.9 ft

Engine: 1 triple expansion 3 cylinder, 1 shaft 1 screw.
no other engine details yet.

The Zealand carried Aviation spirit in drums, if there is access to the cargo hold the drums should still be there.

Could you post the photos of the Memas from you video, I would like a closer look.

Best of luck with the dive and please keep us updated.

Mick
What is the best place to enter the engine room?
Can you attach a print screen picture from the video and mark it?
thanks Flaviu

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Sat Jul 06, 2013 8:55 pm

there are archives with vessel plans (SS ZEALAND)?

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:33 pm

Where i can find more pictures of SS Zealand?

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flaviu
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Re: SS Zealand

Post by flaviu » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:46 pm

28 Jun 1942
HMS Islay (Lt. C.H.L. Clarke, RNR) picks up 15 survivors from the British merchant Zealand that was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine U-97 14 miles south-southwest of Haifa in position 32º27'N, 34º43'E.

ZEALAND Official No 164363
Currie Line; 1936; Barclay, Curie & Co.; 1,433 tons; 262-2x 40-
2x15-9; 97 n.h.p.; 12 knots; triple-expansion engines. The
steamship Zealand, Capt. L. J. Branagan, in convoy from Port Said
to Famagusta with aviation spirit in drums, was torpedoed and
sunk by a German submarine on June 28th, 1942, S.S.W. of Haifa.
Ten of the crew and four gunners were lost, Capt. Branagan was
among the survivors.

http://warsailors.com/forum/read.php?1, ... #msg-27801

May be there is a story? Capt. Branagan? Other sailors rescued? Somebody or somewere are stories?
Somebody knows?
Thnaks

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